Interview with Sen. John Boozman (R-Ark.)

Sen. John Boozman (R-Ark.) is ranking member of the Senate Ag Committee and a key player in the farm bill debate. I interviewed Mr. Boozman as part of my Markets & News/Signal to Noise podcast and for use on several Pro Farmer and Farm Journal products. His responses show he has listened to many farmers, ranchers and other ag sector stakeholders during the long farm bill process. The comments also signal more work needs to be completed before a farm bill draft surfaces. The questions and responses have been slighted edited for clarity and brevity. Link to the audio of the interview.

Question: Senator, thank you for your time because I know you've been very, very busy. What have you learned and found out recently as far as information gathering?

Boozman: “Well, I've been all over recently. I was in Jackson, Mississippi; Fargo, North Dakota; Anchorage, Alaska. I’m going to be in Texas next week. So, we really are getting all over the country. And the thing that I'm learning is how diverse agriculture is and that it can't be a one-size-fits-all [farm bill].”

Question: It’s obvious an extension of the current farm bill will be needed, but history signals you don’t have to do that right away — you can go until near the end of the year. Am I correct?

Boozman: “Yes. They're telling us that we should be in good shape until like you say, the end of the year, first of January. So, we shouldn't have to do a whole lot. We come back right after Labor Day; the House comes back two weeks later. We've got all the [fiscal year 2024] appropriations stuff to get sorted out. We've got a lot to do, and there's simply not going to be enough time.”

Question: Regarding the actual Senate farm bill timeline, when will you drop a draft of the farm bill because history shows you don’t want to drop it too soon relative to floor action because like fish, it gets old fast.

Boozman. “That’s right. The good news is that Sen. [Debbie] Stabenow (D-Mich.) and I get along very, very well. Our staffers are working hard, putting things on paper. There are a lot of dynamics in the House and dynamics in the Senate. I can't really tell you exactly when we'll come out with a rough draft or a final bill or whatever. But I think we are making headway and our commitment is to get this thing done before the end of the year. I think if you get into presidential politics next year, it gets even more difficult.”

Question: Whenever you release a draft, how long after that will you have a Committee markup?

Boozman: “We want to get this done… get it to the point that everyone has a look at it, and to digest it. On the other hand, you don't want it hanging out for months before things get done. So, I can't give you an exact timeline.”

Question: Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) gave a speech at a meeting this week in Minnesota. She says the Senate is going to go first. She didn't take any questions. What does she mean by that?

Boozman: “Well, I think there is a fair chance of that happening. I certainly had the opportunity to go and do whatever she (Klobuchar) asked, including going to Minnesota and looking at what’s going on there, which is one of our major ag states. The nice thing about the farm bill is it’s not really a partisan issue. I would agree there is a fair chance of us [going first]. I think myself and Sen. Stabenow and Sen. Klobuchar have really good relationships with our House colleagues, Congressman Thompson, Scott, and I think we will all work together and just do it. This is just everybody working together, working hard for rural America, for our farmers. More importantly, our consumers in the sense of keeping a cheap safe product more so than any place else in the world.”

Question: House Ag Chair GT Thompson (R-Pa.) was also in Minnesota. He says he wants a “very effective farm bill.” That gets us into the farm bill issues. On Title I, you came out very early saying you want an increase in reference prices. I am assuming for all program crops, right?”

Boozman: “I was right out of the chute from the very start. I am glad you recognize that. We not only need an increase in reference prices, but we also need to make sure — and this is really important — let's get this right. Our risk management tools, whether they are crop insurance, dairies, all of the risk management tools (ARC, PLC)… all that needs to be brought up today. We're in a totally different world than we were a year and a half ago. Let me give you a good example: The average farm loan is about $335,000. Don't hold me to this exactly, but to service that note in March of 2021 it cost between $9,000 and $10,000. Now you're likely at $23,000 to $24,000. Farmers’ expenses have gone up dramatically. Every chart that I've seen shows commodity prices struggling in the future. We simply must get our risk management tools [updated because they] come from the 2018 Farm Bill five years ago, and a lot of that data comes from 2012. I've really been very clear about this. Why would we lock our farmers in for five years at the same thing with 2012 data? I feel very strongly about this. I think that the risk management tools — all of them — are the basis of the farm bill. This is what allows farmers to go to the bank and borrow the money that they need to go forward right now. If you take land values out of the equation, return on investment for farmers is 2%. We even get two and a half times that now with the CD at the local bank. These are big things. You can tell that I'm pretty passionate about it. But it's not just reference prices across the board. We simply have to help our farmers as they go forward to handle the risk and be able to go to the bank and it's going to be tougher because our banks are under increased scrutiny because of the problems they're having to get the loans that they need to go forward.”

Question: Can I deduce from what you said that if you do indeed issue farm bill text that you are supportive of it… that you think there are effective risk management tool improvements embodied in any bill if you release it?

Boozman: “Yes… I don't see any reason to have a farm bill if you don't change it, and again, help the risk management tools. I was in Fargo, North Dakota, and I thought a lady summed it up best. Her comment was 'We need more farm in the farm bill', and I believe that very, very strongly.”

Question: Regarding a boost in reference prices and a potential base acreage update, what are your comments on those topics and is the funding available for them?

Boozman: “No, the funding is not there yet. We must find the funding. Regarding reference prices, PLC/ARC, crop insurance, as I said earlier, we must make sure all of those are up to date. That's what we're working on now. It is very, very hard to do that. I'm very much not in favor of a mandatory acreage base update. That is the kind of thing that divides farmers. What you are doing is determining winners and losers: 34 states would lose and 16 would gain. But even within that you might have a state that actually comes out ahead but within that state, you'll have significant losers among people with a mandatory base update. That’s a big cost saver, but you're actually taking a bunch of money out of rural America. I was in Indiana… some 53% of the counties in Indiana have lost population. This is what's going on in rural America. The idea of taking from farmers, and then somehow giving it back to them in a different form and saying you should be grateful. I just totally disagree with that, and these are not just southern states — this includes California.”

Question: What about a selective base update for beginning farmers or farmers with no base?

Boozman: “This is something that we're all struggling with. We simply have to figure out what we can do for those that would like to get involved in agriculture, and what the path forward is. The average age of our farmers is 58. One thing I've seen as I've traveled across the country is the effects of the extreme weather. Farmers have been able to get through the terrible cold of last winter and the places that were flooded or whatever. They're scratching their heads now and just saying is it really worth it to work so very hard to make this work. We've got to have young people and anyone who wants to get into agriculture, we are trying to create some sort of program whether it's through base acres, whether it's some other program, we simply have to come up with something. I'm not sure what that is, but I'm committed, and I think I can speak for the four corners (Chairs and Ranking members of Ag panel) that we're all committed to figure out what that program looks like.”

Question: House Ag Chair G.T. Thompson indicates he is “looking under every stone” to find additional funding. Are you as well?

Boozman: “Yes… you look at the high cost of farmland, the equipment cost, which is going up on a daily basis. Interest… all of these things make it so very difficult. Even for people that have their land much less than for those trying to get into business. Leased land… whatever the business model is, but that's something that we simply have to do.”

Question: Regarding weather-related disasters, farmers usually ask two questions: One, will there be a disaster bill this year relative to the problems in Hawaii, California, the southern states, etc., and Two, if there is a program, they hope it's not going to be implemented like USDA has done for ERP Phase 2. Any comments?

Boozman: “This is a real problem. In the past, if we had disasters, Congress might act. In recent years we have been able to come up with money for our farmers in rural America to help with this. The problem now is that it is not a given that this is going to happen. By the time Congress acts, it might simply take over a year to actually get the legislation passed. And then, many months to implement. You're looking at maybe two years. What are you doing during that interim? This is another area that we simply have to do a better job. We're spending a lot of money to help farmers and that's a good thing. But I think everybody agrees that we're doing that in a pretty inefficient way.”

Question: Regarding California’s Proposition 12 and legislative efforts to deal with that. G.T. Thompson and others have indicated they want to put language into the farm bill to offset the negative impacts of Prop 12 on the pork industry. Are you in support of that?”

Boozman: “That’s a real problem for the pork industry. And I think it is a forerunner of other entities running into the same problem, where you've got this patchwork of different regulations all over the country. I'd very much like to do something if we could get that done in the bill. Certainly, I would vote for it. I think that Congress will be very divided on that though, and so we'll have to wait and see, but certainly I'm very much in favor. I was disappointed with the Supreme Court ruling. I think being realistic, we’ve got a divided Congress. Those are the kinds of things that are difficult to do in a measure like the farm bill.”

Question: This is my 11^th farm bill. Two issues — ag research and market development trade programs — are given usually given lip service because when the final days of a farm bill arrive, funding for those programs are usually not sufficient. Any comments on those two topics?

Boozman: “As I go around, the things that come up are, again, making sure that our risk management tools are in place. That's number one. And that comes from across agriculture segments. Along with that, conservation programs are key — having conservation programs that we can use, including EQIP, CSP, those kinds of things, and making sure those programs are not tied to risk management requirements. We must make sure Washington is not somehow dictating how we do that and say you have to be green enough to participate. After that is research and something our farmers understand is vital. [Regarding market development trade programs], 40% of the farm products in Arkansas are exported and that would be true throughout the country. And to be honest, I think everybody — whether you're a Democrat or Republican — would give the current administration a very poor grade on trade for not doing a good job in that regard. The other thing that comes up is the pandemic preparedness for animals and making sure that we don't have an outbreak of swine flu. What do we do to react to avian influenza? The list goes on and on. But the issue right now is those are things that we simply have to invest in. The other thing I would says is we're so blessed. When you look at the inputs to produce a crop, those have kind of stabilized, but the amount of ag production has gone up dramatically. That's the American ingenuity. We haven't invested near as much as we should, but with the dollars that they've had, our research entities have done a tremendous job making farmers so productive and along with that, having the cleanest water that we can and the healthiest soils, air… that's simply going to be a vital part. Maybe the most vital part as we go forward. And then along with that is broadband. Broadband is a good story. There's lots of money in the pipeline. It's just a matter of getting it built out, which is going to take a little bit of time, but, but it's going to be so necessary for the modern-day farmer of any size.”

Question: Annual appropriation bills are sometimes mini farm bills. With that in mind, you saw the House FY 2024 appropriations bill had all sorts of concerns. Some senators have indicated significant debate on the farm bill won’t take place until the appropriations process is completed. Do you agree with that? And if that's the case, we're really talking October or later, aren't we, relative to the farm bill?

Boozman: “I think that's right. We have to get that sorted out first, and that's going to be kind of an all-hands-on-deck, and everybody's involved in that. Many of us wear dual hats with our various committees. But I've got a lot of confidence in Senator [John] Hoeven (R-N.D./ranking member on the Senate Ag Appropriations Subcommittee) and his counterpart (Sen. Martin Heinrich, D-N.M.). They did a great job coming up with a good product in the Senate, and eventually the House will work its way. But we and our staff can go forward with the things we need to do to develop the farm bill.”

Question: Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) is again pushing for lower farm program payment caps and changes to actively engaged language. But many farmers say the payment cap should be increased to what we saw during pandemic-related programs. What is your position on that?

Boozman: “We have to look at that. I think the payment caps have been reduced in the sense that if you look at what those dollars are worth, compared to a couple of years ago, inflation is much higher than what the government measures. It's not that the government is cheating or doing anything like that. They just take into account things that maybe were important decades ago. But they're not to the average person now. This is something that we go through every farm bill, and we'll be working with Senator Grassley, we have so much respect for him. It's just another program that we need to make sure that is up to date. I have not voted with him in the past in that regard. And he understands that we kind of agree to disagree.”

Question: Some lawmakers say congressional leaders from both political parties in both chambers want a feather in their cap relative to approving a major bill and the farm bill would qualify for that. Does that give you momentum to get a farm bill completed in that you'll have a leadership push on this one?

Boozman: “Yeah, I really believe that, and when you look at the makeup of the House, Republicans are in situations where they represent a lot of rural America. Democrats are in a lot of key areas in rural America where they've done such a good job and representing their districts that they've been able to hang on and do well, so it's important for both sides to make sure that rural America is taken care of. When you look at the demographics, when you look at the population loss, they desperately need to help. Food security is national security. And that's not just a cliche. In fact, I gave a presentation to the Republican caucus, and one of the senior members of the Intelligence Committee said just to remind them that farm and food security is national security. We had the opportunity to meet with President Biden several weeks ago. First thing he said was ‘Delaware's an ag state, I want to get a farm bill passed.’ So that I think is true, pretty much across the board. And not only with leadership but I think with most rank and file. This is not 2018. Things are so uncertain now, for all of our businesses, but I think particularly the agricultural businesses. We must give them the tools. The other thing that I want to stress is as we go through and look at these various risk management tools, those are going to be done in a fair way, every state, every region, every commodity. We're going to make sure that those are done fairly. And at the end of the day, we can have a farm bill that everybody can live with, that everybody's proud of. It won't be perfect, but it'll be something that we're proud of. The other thing is there's some really bad stuff that we're going to prevent from happening.”