And I harken back to my training in the 60s, which was that

"if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."  Rashid Nuri

Heather Gray

January 7, 2018

Justice Initiative International

At the community radio station WRFG-FM in Atlanta, Georgia, I have a radio program entitled "Just Peace", that I have been producing for more than two decades. In addition, however, my professional career has been in agriculture working with Black farmers across the South. So, I decided quite a few years ago that in addition to the vast array of justice issues I cover on the show, that it was important to provide listeners with information about food. Not only about the politics of food but most importantly "how to grow it".

This was inspired thanks to Atlanta's organic urban farmer Rashid Nuri who created the Truly Living Well Center for Natural Urban Agriculture. I had realized that if there was anyone in Atlanta, the United States or virtually anywhere in the world who understood the breadth of the history, the politics of food, and about organic production altogether,  it was Rashid Nuri.

With a degree from Harvard University in Political Science and a masters degree in Soil Science from the University of Massachusetts, he is certainly well qualified to put it mildly. As an 'organic' farmer he said he had to unlearn virtually everything he acquired from the Soil Science degree, and I understand that as well.

As you can see from all this impressive background, Rashid's breadth of both the knowledge and analysis of the politics and history of food is significant. We are blessed he decided to create his organization here in Atlanta. So, since 2011, I have been interviewing Rashid once a month about agriculture and also opening the phone lines for listeners to ask questions about the topic at hand or organic production techniques, etc.

Rashid had also mentioned to me some time ago that most conflicts in the world have to do with lack of access to food and food prices. So I started researching the issue myself. For example, the 18th century American and French revolutions up to the 21st century Arab Spring were largely around food issues. Then, I have been hearing about the destabilization in Iran in the past few weeks and that access to and the price of food were also critical issues leading to the riots.

Because of the on-going and recent destabilization in many parts of the world, I am sharing both the audio and a partial transcription of the November 2012 interview with Rashid. In the interview, Rashid makes reference to and discusses food issues being critical in virtually every revolution and, importantly, he offers some solutions.

The November 2012 interview with Rashid Nuri was by me, Heather Gray, along with questions from co-producer Nadia Ali. The edited transcription below does not include the questions from listeners and Rashid's answers that are also interesting and can be heard by listening to the entire program recording below.

 

November 2012 Audio of Interview with Rashid Nuri

 

Interview: Learning from Rashid Nuri:

"The fact is that all politics are local.
You think global but you act local." Rashid Nuri

Transcription of November 2012 WRFG-FM Interview with Rashid Nuri

on Heather Gray's "Just Peace Program"

Heather Gray - Rashid Nuri is the director of the Truly Living Well Center for Natural Urban Agriculture.

 

We're having monthly discussions with Rashid about any number of issues. Rashid welcome.

 

Rashid Nuri - Thank you for welcoming me to WRFG.

 

Heather - It's a pleasure. So, Rashid, there is so much to talk about. One of the notices we sent out around the city about the discussion with you is about food prices. But before we go into this or that discussion, tell us a little bit about Truly Living Well for those who haven't heard about this.

Rashid - We grow food. We teach people how to grow food. We provide agricultural education and we build community and engage in economic development and job creation throughout metro-Atlanta.

 

Heather - That's wonderful.

 

So this is a discussion about healthy foods as well as the challenges we face with industrial agriculture. It's interesting Rashid, one of the books that you have recommended that I read is Stuffed and Starved. It's by Raj Patel. He's actually from  India and I know he used to work with Food First.

 

One of the interesting things in the book is that he said the closer the Mexicans are to the US border, the less healthy they are because they are eating a lot of the American foods. Foods that leads to diabetes and obesity and so forth.

 

Rashid - Americans are the fattest...I can't say the most unhealthy...but we're sure down on the list of being a healthy population because of the various diseases that we have which all comes from the quality of the non-food. No, not even the quality. That's a bad phrase. From all of the non-food that we eat. So many people base their diet on what they can get at the local gas station. And they're sick as a result.

 

So Patel's observation of those close to the border being unhealthy makes perfect sense to me.

 

Heather - The notice that I sent out around the city about the program tonight, Rashid, is something that you and I have discussed in the past a bit which is that it's highly likely that the unrest we are seeing in the Middle East and elsewhere is partly related, if not, in some instances, totally related, to rising food prices.

 

I think this would surprise people, actually.

 

Rashid - Well, we've talked about that a couple of times on your show. Underlying what they called the Arab Spring was the rise in the cost of food. Here you have millions of educated young people who cannot find jobs. They're having difficulty surviving without a job on the meager income that they may have and then the price of food goes up. Its makes people angry because they still don't have jobs and whatever income they had was already meager and now it's costing more to provide the food.

 

There are a number of factors that went into this - I guess this was last summer in particular - there were extreme droughts in Russia that created a shortage of grains that would have been distributed in the Middle East. The Chinese are buying everything in sight. So the price of commodities went through the sky. American farmers are making money, they don't need any subsidies right now; the prices of corn and wheat are so high - have been high. That has led to unrest.

 

I think there is an historical precedent for that - you will find that the higher prices in food undergirds a lot of riots and revolutions and rebellions throughout history - its been around food.

 

Heather - One of the things we said in the note that went out is that in almost every revolution...the American Revolution....

 

Rashid - Was about tea.

 

Heather - Was about tea and other commodities, too, being taxed.

 

Rashid - Yes, tea was the symbolic (product. And being taxed) which meant the price went up. People had to pay more for tea and the British merchants made more money. And they (Americans) said "no, we're not going to do this anymore."

 

Yeah, it wasn't just tea. There were other commodities being imported that were being taxed.

 

Heather - The French Revolution apparently had something to do with sugar and salt.

 

Rashid - "Let them eat cake!"*

 

Heather -"Let them eat cake!" Marie Antoinette (French monarch) saying "Let them eat cake!"

 

Rashid - Yeah, they (the peasants) were worried about bread. "Let them eat cake!" And you have to remember which class that she (Antoinette) came from. There are class issues involved.

 

Basically today it's who makes the money - it's the banksters and multi-national corporations.

 

Back then it was the State, which was the King (royalty), in the French Revolution. And the aristocracy and bourgeoisie in France made great distinctions - they were gaining all their wealth from the peasantry and the peasantry was not eating - and they got mad and said to those in control "Ya'll have got to go!" It's very simple. Very simple.

 

Heather - And it had to do with food.

 

Rashid - It had to do with food.

 

Heather - What about the Boxer Rebellion?

 

Rashid - Same thing. The Chinese were upset - they didn't have food. They got mad at the emperor saying "we need some food!" And even then you already had a tremendous European incursion to China. They were bringing opium from Afghanistan into China and extracting the silk and the tea and getting people doped up and exploiting the continent and people got mad. Did something about it.

 

It's not new. Happens all the time. You go read the history how crack cocaine has taken over the Black community and where that came from and it was subsidized and brought in by the government to keep the people dumbed down.

 

Then they want to know why folks rise up in rebellion. It's cause they can't get food - can't afford it. It may be there but if you can't afford to pay for it you're going to get mad and strike back at someone.

 

And you look at the connection - how many civil disturbances you've had since the 80s. Particularly out in Los Angeles. That's what the issues were about. People wanting something to eat and being able to support themselves, having jobs, having access to education which costs money.

 

And who's making the money?

 

Heather - Follow the money?

 

Rashid - That's my philosophy. You want to understand what's going on? Just follow the money! See who's getting paid - whose not! Who's making the money - whose not! And today it's the multinationals, banks.

 

We went through this whole crisis and the Obama administration is in big trouble because he helped bail out the banks. And then the very people who were bailed out are not now beating up Obama and trying to keep him from getting back in there.

 

The multi-corporations and the banks are the ones who are making the decisions in this world and it's creating problems.

 

I think the issues that really need to be confronted are how are we going to wrest control of our destiny and our future from the multinationals and the banksters who are controlling events around the world?

 

What kinds of changes are necessary in society to bring that about?

 

Now, we have lots of academics who are studying the subject or intellectuals who are writing about the subject. Raj Patel talks about the problems as he sees them and also many of the solutions.

 

And I harken back to my training in the 60s, which was that "if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."

 

And, the fact is that all politics are local. You think global but you act local.

 

So for me the best way to address these issues is to grow food right here in the community and feed people.

 

It all comes back home. What are you going to do?

 

What I'm trying to do is feed people. Teach people how to grow food for themselves. Help them to attain horticultural literacy, food self-sufficiency, dealing with issues of food sovereignty.

 

I firmly believe that we can address most of the ills that we find in society and an aspect of it can be resolved through the production of food.

 

One of the best examples that's close to us is Cuba. Here you have a country that has been economically boycotted for the last 50 years. The US has cut them off. The US created Cuba (in the 20 ^th century) as a haven for vacationists...gamblers - it was a creation of the US.

 

So then the US cuts them off and what are they going to do?

 

So they worked with the Russians for many years and then the Soviet Union fell apart.

 

So Cuba was in the bad way. Castro had to think about "how am I going to feed my people?"

 

So they developed one of the foremost urban agricultural programs in the world. They support folks growing food in the cities.

 

I had a conversation with Dr. Ridgely Muhammad earlier today. He runs the Nation of Islam Farm down in South Georgia.

 

He thought he and I had a disagreement and I said "no" because you can't get rid of the rural farms. Here in Metropolitan Atlanta we can grow all the fruits and vegetables that we need to feed everyone. But we're not going to grow corn, and rice, and wheat, or raise cattle in the cities. We have lots of people with the backyard chickens and I think that's great. But you're not going to see a backyard beef cow for those who eat beef - that's not going to happen.

 

I don't think a lot of people have seen what pigs look like these days. They're not the little oink, oink things. Now they're huge. You could put a saddle on them suckers and ride them. I don't eat pork. I don't eat a lot of those things. But you're not going to produce those in the city.

 

But what we can do is grow fruit and vegetables so that we can feed everybody and we need to do that. Castro has done that.

 

So Cuba, that small island in the middle of Gulf and they're doing all right. They don't have to import food, at a minimum. There are some things I'm sure they import. But as a whole they're not importing. In fact, one of their major exports is tobacco for cigars. They make the best in the world.

 

Heather - it's interesting that here we've got all over the country and, actually, all over the world these occupy movements. They're occupying Wall Street and a lot of issues are coming up about where there's been corporate greed and corruption. So a lot of people are saying and I am also saying that agriculture (corporate agribusiness) needs to be occupied.

 

Rashid - I don't agree with that one. The reason I don't, you go down there and occupy some of these big commercial farms. You're not going to stop them going that they do. And what we have to do is create the alternative.

 

So rather than getting mad at them let's go do what we can do. And talked with these young people in Occupy Atlanta. They came out to the farm on multiple occasions and we had extensive conversations with them. And we said if they really wanted to do something in downtown to make a point, 'plant a tree.' Put an apple tree out there. Plant some apple trees.

 

Nadia Ali - Why did the Occupy Movement folks approach you at Truly Living Well?

 

Rashid - I can't answer that question Nadia. But they were seizing land downtown and we're seizing land and making it productive. We're doing something with the land that we've obtained. We've got vacant lots and we're growing food.

 

They had the big commons down there and all they could do was fuss at folks. God bless you all who were part of the movement. I understand and appreciate what you were trying to do. I thought there needed to be a little more focus; they needed to have a greater clarity in what it is they wanted to accomplish out of that event and I didn't see that. Our suggestion was - plant a tree! And if ya'll want to do something come out here and volunteer work on the farm. Grow some food so you can feed yourselves.

 

Now if you're in occupy you're still running home and to the grocery store. And the same people you're mad at - the same 1% that you're occupying against - here you take your money and go and run down to the grocery store and buy food from them. There's some contradiction there as far as I'm concerned.

 

Nadia - How did they respond to that?

 

Rashid - it was interesting. Once we were sitting out there for an hour one day - just me and Eugene - our operations manager. He and I were just sitting there and trying to figure out why we weren't going home and then here comes these young people up there. It's amazing how God works and this was what we were supposed to do. Have this conversation with them.

 

So they came to us and they brought some more people the next day. They came to us with their arguments about why they were doing this and how important it is. And trying to tell us what we didn't understand.

 

And I said "Whoa. Time out. Check yourselves. Listen for a second."

 

They did listen and understood some of the comments we had and went back and talked with their people and made a few changes and brought some more people back to our site to be able to have a conversation with them.

 

I am absolutely unequivocally guilty myself, when I was their age, of thinking that I knew everything. You couldn't tell me nothing. I knew it. As I matter of fact I would put my finger in your face and explain to you why you didn't understand what you were doing.

 

As I've gotten older I've realized, again, that there's a futility in that because if you're doing what you want to do, and you're doing the best you know how, that's the best you're going to be able to do. It's not on me to change your mind but to show you how to do it different and that's my orientation.

 

Heather - Thank you Rashid.