By Barbara Van Zoeren LICSW
Susan M. Pollak, MTS, EdD, is a clinical psychologist and current president of the Institute for Meditation and Psychotherapy. She received a degree in Comparative Religion from Harvard Divinity School, her doctorate in Psychology from Harvard University, and her clinical training through Harvard Medical School. She has been a clinician and Instructor in Psychology at Harvard Medical School for 20 years, specializing in the integration of meditation and psychotherapy.
I spoke with Susan Pollak at her home in Cambridge. We spoke about her personal path with Psychotherapy and Buddhism, her thoughts about the intersection of the two, and about her new book, Sitting Together, Essential skills for Mindfulness-Based Psychotherapy; the subject of our book review, in this edition.
Barbara: What drew you to Psychotherapy, Buddhism and the intersection of them both?
Susan: When I was in elementary school my aunt Fay was a journalist and she was sent on assignment to cover the first Ashram in New York. She started meditating and doing yoga, and when she visited she would teach us what she learned. It just sort of clicked for me and I've been practicing since then. But as you can imagine I learned to keep it quiet. No one was doing yoga or meditation and it was thought to be pretty weird. My aunt was a consummate journalist, always going for the next story. That translated into her spiritual proclivities as well. Every time I would go visit there would be a new guru. The upside of that is that I was able to sit with some of the major teachers of meditation of the 60's and 70's. I continued practicing in high school and college and I became a religion major in college because that was my passion. I then went to divinity school, planning to be a professor of comparative religion. At that time there was a major ethical violation with one of the teachers I was studying with. This person, that everyone thought was enlightened, turned out to be psychotic. That event caused me to start wrestling with the question of: How can smart discerning people not be able to tell the difference between enlightenment and psychosis? And what was going on with all this abuse of power? And this wrestling drove me into psychology. I became interested in issues of abuse, hypocrisy, power dynamics, gender relationships and patriarchy. So I took a long sabbatical from the meditation world. It was a real crisis of faith for me. I started working with Carol Gilligan, who was my advisor, and after that with Judith Herman because I was so interested in feminist issues and Trauma.
Barbara: And somehow you integrated your meditation practice with your clinical training?
Susan: Well, in the clinical work with my clients, when we'd become stuck I began to return to my meditation practices to help them.
Barbara: How would you bring that to your clients?
Susan: Well, that's really what our book is all about. I'd offer it to clients as an option of something that might work. It was the mid 80's and I wanted to do it right so I asked my supervisor about it and she acted like I was suggesting something unethical. She said, "You can do what you want behind closed doors but I will not supervise you on that."
Barbara: Sounds like she saw it as a problem of some kind.
Susan: At the time it was considered marginal, there was no research and it was breaking the frame of psychodynamic treatment. So once again I learned to be really quiet about it my meditation practices. Then I met Phil Aranow (one of the founders and the first president of IMP) who introduced me to Trudy Goodman. They were the only people around who were talking about meditation and psychotherapy. We would spend time talking about the two, how they went together, what you could integrate etc. ... so I found others who thought as I did.
Barbara: So today in your psychotherapy practice, are you exclusively using meditation practices?
Susan: No. I have some people who are not interested at all. I think the goal is not to turn everyone into a meditator but to offer people different tools ... to help them find some balance, equanimity, compassion, calm and to help them manage their lives.
Barbara: Where do you see the most exciting work happening in this intersection and where would you like to see more?
Susan: I'm really excited about the brain research. I think it is part of the reason that mindfulness has become so mainstream. We find that it really does make a difference. I'm also excited about the work on self-compassion that Chris Germer and Kristin Neff are doing. It is utterly transformative. I think that self -compassion work is the next wave. Dick Schwartz's IFS is a compassionate treatment and other treatments are bringing together yoga and body awareness and body understanding, such as Pat Ogden's Sensorimotor Psychotherapy.
Barbara: Would you talk about your new book and how it came to be?
Susan: This is a book I've wanted to do for a decade and it came from a class we had at Cambridge Hospital, called 'Stress and Self Care' that became a required class for psychology interns and other behavioral medicine clinicians. I structured it with the first half focusing on the clinician developing their own mindfulness practice and the second half with a focus on patients ... what you could do for anxiety, depression, trauma, pain, couples etc. and that became the book. The structure of the book, like yoga and learning mindfulness practices is sequential, starting with the basics and building on them.
Barbara: Do you have one message that you would like to have people get from your book?
Susan: I'm interested in helping people to get their mindfulness practice into their daily lives. A practice can be simple. Can you do 30 seconds? There's a practice in the book, which is just 3 breaths. Trudy Goodman says, "You can change your state of mind in just 3 breaths." You can practice while walking or eating. I'd like people to lose the guilt about practice.
Barbara: Thank you for your time Susan. I look forward to reading your book.